Subject: "BEST" 3/18 Mtg
Date: Thursday, March 13, 1997 2:50PM

The ONgoing ECar Saga (excerpts from an ongoing dialogue...) follows:

"Rick Cash & Lee Hart went to Fleet/Farm on Tuesday March 4, and bought one
of the feed carts and four 12v fan motors. Fleet/Farm was pretty
disorganized; they couldn't find any of the 32" wide carts, so we had to get
a 37" wide ones (hard to get through doorways).

The cart is manufactured by:

    Future Products Corporation         phone (715) 693-4444
    P.O.Box 157                           FAX (715) 693-4480
    22 Park View Circle
    Masinee, Wisconsin 54455

It may make more sense to go straight to the manufacturer to avoid
Fleet/Farm's lack-of-stock problems. We bought a model #180-3HWP (with no
bucket), but what we wanted was a #90-3HWP (also without bucket).

I assembled the cart to check it out. It is a 3-wheeled cart with two 24"
bicycle wheels and a 10" diameter wheel on a pivot (like a giant chair
caster). The frame is four pieces of steel that bolt into a 3' by 3'
rectangle. Simple, strong, and easy to assemble, but rather heavy.

The 12v fan motors have plenty of power and should work fine. I was afraid
we might need 2 for reasonable performance, but one may be adequate. They
draw about 2 amps no-load, 5-7 amps continuously, and up to 20-25 amps (at
stall) for short periods. Small, cheap, light, and powerful, but they have
poor bearings and are awkward to mount. We will have to work out a good way
to mount them and support the shaft with a good bearing, or they won't last
long.

I took the cart, motor, and a battery charger to Joe Rossow's 5th grade
class at Morris Park School on Wednesday, March 5. The kids seemed very
excited about the idea. We did some experiments on measuring the diameter
of the wheels and how far they moved per revolution. We ran the motor and
pressed it against the wheels, and measured the resulting rpm for big and
small wheels, and calculated how fast the cart would go. They haven't
studied ratios and fractions yet, so the math was all very new to them. But
I got the impression that they had a pretty good idea of the principle and
practical application.

I took the parts with me when I left, and gave them to Rick Thursday night,
so he can take them in for his group. I'm looking forward to hearing from
Joe as to how his kids responded, and if they want to go ahead and
participate.

Batteries

I got a response from Optima Battery in Colorado. They make a ideal sealed
lead-acid battery. 12v, 54 amp-hours, $130 list, 44 lbs. They may be
willing to work out an educational discount ($50 each plus shipping). They
are sending me sponsorship forms and information, though their rep tells me
a discount is much more likely than sponsorship.

I also talked to John Wayland at ECar Engineering in Portland Oregon. They
have 13 sealed lead-acid batteries that they can sell for $25 each plus
shipping. This is the best deal so far. 12v, 65amp-hours, $110 list, 48
lbs. each.

In either case, it will be a one-time deal. We need to decide how many
batteries we want, and order them all at once. I suggest that we order
about 6 batteries, which would cover 4 schools with a couple spares.

Schedule

I will be out of town March 16-29, but can still be reached by e-mail or
phone answering machine. So it looks like I will miss your 3/18 meeting.

...things the GED dads might want to see:

 - You might show them the videotape of the California Jr.Hi school team.
 - I think John Klein and his Barton class would be delighted to show off
   "Sparky" to an interested audience.
 - Joe Rossow has quite a stack of photocopies of similar electric car
   projects from around the world (there are over 200 schools doing this!)

Progress report:

 - Rick and Lee visited Northern Hydraulic this Saturday. They have a better
   selection of wheeled "carts" in the $100 price range than Fleet/Farm.
   Also, they are a good source of wheels, tires, and all sorts of parts
   for lawn mowers, garden tractors, go-karts, mini-bikes, etc. that are
   very useful for building little vehicles.

 - I ordered 3 batteries from E-Car Engineering in Portland OR. They
   specialize in parts for electric cars. Price is $25 each plus shipping.
   That's very good; these batteries retail for over $100. They will be
   shipped to Rick Cash. Spec: 12v 65amp-hour, 50 lbs, lead-acid, deep
   cycle, completely sealed with gelled electrolyte (so they won't leak
   acid even if turned upside down, or if they break a hole in the case).

 - Rick Cash reports that Fleet/Farm has 2 more of the feed carts his class
   is using. He prefers that all groups use the same cart. I showed this
   cart to Joe Rossow's class. There was some concern that it is too wide
   to fit through doors, and rather expensive ($128 of their $250 budget).

 - I'll be visiting Joe Rossow's class around Thursday this week. We will
   try to talk them into using the same cart, or something similar enough
   to avoid any unfair advantage."
[This has been a ongoing Lee & Rick dialoge via Email!]